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Venkatesh Rao offers the following definition of the "Fourth World"

Fourth world: Parts of the developed world that have collapsed past third-world conditions because industrial safety nets have simultaneously withered from neglect/underfunding, and are being overwhelmed by demand, but where pre-modern societal structures don’t exist as backstops anymore.

This is what this story reminds me of.


Isn't that basically what happened to the USSR? (Yes not technically "first world" but highly industrial and bureaucratic)


People in the USSR at least had the good fortune of already living in a world where they were highly adept at recycling and barter and maintenance, and in the case of the chechens also community self defense.

I think most of America would be fucked as most people don't know to how to do anything but their job plus buy things with money from their job. The top 25% of handy people might be able to change their own oil and that is it (not that they can't learn more, but it takes time).


>I think most of America would be fucked as most people don't know to how to do anything

Most of America would be substantially less fucked than the slice of mostly officer workers who mostly have enough money that "spend money rather than upskill or barter" is their default mode of operation you see via HN.


First World was US/NATO aligned. Second World was USSR/Warsaw Pact aligned. Third world was unaffiliated with either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World


I think this is relevant because the colloquialism of it meaning "developed" versus "undeveloped" doesn't work when you try to build on top of it

it's impossible to build on what Third World means or add lore like Fourth World when the definition is on a shaky and now non-existent foundation, while much of the unaffiliated world is highly developed now.


Yes. Also, fitting the USSR into the extended framework, by not recognizing that it already was in the framework to begin with.

IIRC Wikipedia says the term was coined ca. 1950s, so it could be argued that the USSR's decline was already factored into the term.


> IIRC Wikipedia says the term was coined ca. 1950s, so it could be argued that the USSR's decline was already factored into the term.

What? The Soviets got the bomb in 1949 and launched Sputnik in 1957. That makes no sense.


That success was not evenly distributed.


Regardless, the Soviet Union was very far from collapsing in the 1950s. Again, what are you talking about?


Someone already assigned "Fourth World" to stateless nations, so it's probably fifth world by now.

The developed world does have decaying infrastructure but moving it between the private and state sector has caused problems. As has lockdown and other international policies. Our local government's main interest seems to be in shutting streets off and designing bad cycle infrastructure that is little use to cyclists (I am one by the way). It is letting our streets fall to pieces and spending lots of money erecting physical blocks.



This is just silly. The German train system has problems. Does that mean total civilizational collapse? No, it doesn't.


Collapse is the other end of the spectrum. This is an institution whose practices/policies only serve itself instead of its customers/purpose.

It's progress, taken to its extreme. From a certain point of view it's effectively the same as collapse.


What does that even mean? We're talking about an organization that serves billions of riders per year. Their passenger numbers increased 20-30% since 2020 so even if their delays are bad clearly it's not bad enough that most people seek alternatives.


If I'm using your transit service and you take me on a several hour detour without my consent passing a dozen or more possible stops because "you're not cleared for that", you aren't serving your mandate and I'm never using your service again.

I might even pull the emergency brake before it gets that far and cause you more problems, even.


I am sorry but this is not Rao's but Umair Haque's and he considers the UK and the US Fourth World.


Scotland, Wales, and Cornwall are fourth world stateless nations.


There's no indication of any failures of the industrial layer in this story. The train was working, it didn't crash into anything, everyone was safe.


The train worked, the railway did not.


Safety failures are not the only type of failure.


Every time a read a story like this, I feel an atavistic desire to self-host eveything. But I've had my Google account for 20 years now; the die is cast.


If you never start you'll never be free. It's also not all or nothing. You can keep things with Google, self-host new stuff and gradually move over things that make sense to mover over.


How does one self host an email server these days and not get flagged into oblivion?


At least use a service with actual customer support like Fastmail, and backup your email with an email client that downloads copies of your email to your computer.


I mean Proton seems like a good (although extremely expensive) option, but these small companies could go out of business on a dime which is a problem when the effort to switch is a titanic undertaking.


If you use your own domain, it's just as simple as switching some MX records (and the TXT or whatever for DMARC etc)


creating backups is crucial. this includes all the contacts, texts of saved emails, photos and so on. Many of these ppl who get locked out fail to create local backups and rely on apple's cloud storage. big mistake.


Even just simulating "what if I lost this account" and seeing what you can't access (have your wife change your password and not tell you for a month or so, say) - tells you what you'll be missing.

The tendrils can run deep.


I have a strong desire not to self host the “live” copy of anything. If my server goes down, I don’t want to have to drop everything and fix it (e.x. if I’m on vacation, I don’t want to have to take a laptop incase I need to fix any server troubles - I go on vacation not to be on call!).

That said, keeping a backup of everything, decoupled from any account I don’t control, gives me huge peace of mind.


I'm slowly decoupling things and hosting parts of my infrastructure myself. Let it be on a cloud server or a home machine.

Doing everything and/or all-at-once is not practical, but having backups for most critical infrastructure helps a lot, and when it's rolling, it rolls without effort.

One can go step by step and call it's done when it becomes too much to bear or satisfactorily decoupled.


> But I've had my Google account for 20 years now

Just realize this: the longer you play this game, the higher your odds of getting banned. Once it hit me, I quickly decoupled from Google. It's like playing satoshi roulette for 0.5% gains. You keep winning until you get fully wiped.


What do/did you do about other people having your Gmail address as a primary contact?


I just contacted them all and gave them my new address after I was locked out.


It's interesting that they leave things at 18-59. Do they later stratify into 18-28, 29-38, 39-48, 48-58?


Looks like they do, yes.

> A stronger association was observed among individuals aged 18 to 29 years, although the underlying reasons remain unclear and warrant further investigation.


That was more or less the case from the advent of TV onwards, though.


Not really. At that point TV was competing with cinema for attention, and each needed to provide something different. Now the mediums have merged as well.


Can't wait for my IDE to get sunset on me with no recourse. Thanks google, but I'll pass.


> with no recourse

Why does the IDE eat your files? If an editor shuts down, open up another one and continue. What's with the melodrama?


A few got stuck in inclined positions,but these don't actually tilt enough to crush even under normal conditions.


I had a rook under promotion happen in a real game on Lichess under time control. Queen would have stalemated, but rook was mate in 2.


That's the difference between the VC and PE models. VC, at least in theory, allocated capital to new ideas. PE squeezes "efficiency" out of what exists.


One thing that I have found Duolingo helpful for is kana and kanji practice in Japanese. It's better than flashcards in that it also gives you stroke order.


When did they add that? When I was trying to learn Japanese 6-7 years ago Duolingo didn’t have anything for either kana or kanji…


Neither is comparable to Israel since there's no home country for most Israelis to return to.


If a person's great-grandparent is the colonizer can you really say they have a "home country" beyond the one they were born in?


grant me safe passage to Algeria then… and return my family’s property while you’re at it.


Well.. Afrikaans people are as native to SA as Americans and Canadians are to their countries.

Netherlands loses control of it about the same time as US became independent and they developed mostly independently since then


I have no skin in the game, but I will do that for you, if you bring back the children from the death. Can you do that? Let's start from the Nakba. Maybe even from last year. No one is asking people to go back to Europe. All you have to do is Stop the Genocide, Repair. Reconcile. And stop the apartheid. But you know what, you have decided that Israel is untenable without war. Israel is of no use to the neo Imperialists, unless it keeps the region unstable.


Well majority of the white population in South Africa don’t have a home country to return to either. Afrikaans people moving to Australia, Britain or the US is not much different than forcing the Jewish people in Israel to go to those countries.

Besides that Apartheid South Africa is remarkably similar to Israel (of course the race part is entirely replaced by religion/culture making assimilation into the Israeli society actually somewhat feasible).


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